Crimson Company - A Board-Drafting Game

Zera

New member
#41
Ideas for cards with Destruction effects.
"Destruction: Flip a card you control / in this lane."
"Destruction: Gain 2 coins."
Currently the Zombie and Fanatic function very similarly. One of these effects would be perfect, I think.
 
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Zera

New member
#43
Alchemist - Converting a card into gold fits her role, but it is usually a loss or reverse tempo unless A) You've given up the lane the card is in, or B) The card is Zombie or Fanatic. A is uncommon, Zombie is only worth 1 coin, and Fanatic gets flipped. There are many ways to fix this -
1. Increase Alchemist's strength to 4 so her base value is higher.
2. Double or add a bonus to Alchemist's coin output.
3. Add one or two more Destruction effects for Alchemist to work with.
4. Try the change for Grave Robber I suggest below...

Plague Doctor - Since average card strength is 3, giving a facedown 3 strength is... average. Since the opponent gets the same buff, Plague Doctor is... average. If you made the buff +4, he'd be legitimately valuable when you have more facedowns.

Sellsword - His max power (excluding other buffs) should be 5-10. I'm sure you'll figure out the best number through testing.

Trickster - Give her 2 strength. This means you give more to the opponent, making the choice more interesting.

Grave Robber - He's not bad, but his best use is re-using card effects, not collecting coins. If I were you, I'd give his effect to Alchemist, and give him this effect - "Gain coins equal to the strength of the top card on the Graveyard, then flip/ remove it." If you do this and rename the discard pile the Graveyard, Grave Robber will actually feel like he's robbing graves. However, this requires a "grave robbed" discard pile or other way of tracking which cards were cashed.

Note: I'm not a professional game designer, so the only cards I 100% think need adjustment are Alchemist, Sellsword, and Trickster.
 
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#44
Zera is my brother. I won majority of our games.

Alchemist: +1/2 gold to effect, or 4/5 strength.

Necromancer: 4 strength.

Paladin: Boring? Maybe change his effect to somehow protect from flipping or destruction.

Sellsword: 3 strength and cost 2 per buff.

Trickster: 2 strength?

Everything else is good. The game is hard to balance due to the lack of granularity. Great job BTW.
 
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Zera

New member
#45
Sellsword's gimmick is becoming stronger when you pay him money, and having the lowest possible strength ensures that players use it. Increasing his base strength lessens the importance of his gimmick, which makes him less interesting. It's better to balance what makes him unique than to homogenize him.
 
#46
Hey guys. Awesome ideas! Based on your feedback, we plan the following changes:

- Set the Necromancer from 5 to 4 strength
- Set the Alchemist from 3 to 4 strength
- Set the Trickster from 1 to 2 strength

With Paladin/ Berserker and Selsword, we are not quite sure. Is it really bad that some "boring" cards are in? Wouldn't it be a bit over the top, if all abilities are super unique and interesting?

For the Sellsword the question is if you feel he is too strong all the time? In how many situations you feel he is really overpowered? What amount of money did you spend on him on average?
 

Zera

New member
#47
In most CC games I've played, the total money available to players grows over time. This can make Sellsword ridiculously powerful, granting exactly as much strength as needed to ignore everything the opponent has. And unlike with bidding, the opponent can't counter with their own coins. In other words, you don't get that self-balancing mechanism. I like how strong Sellsword can get, but he needs a limit so you can't win with him alone. I would limit him to 10 strength at the absolute max. It's a clean number, and any more than that is just overkill.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but can you boost Sellsword and then double him with Fairy? That would be... explosive.

EDIT: My bro thinks a limit of 7 would be best, still stronger than the Demon by a significant amount.
 
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#48
Berserker isn't boring. It takes a stab at all living cards as expected; I like it.

I've got no problem with Paladin being boring. It just seems like most cards are highly unique but Paladin is just +strength with no drawbacks or interplay. I thought Paladins were defensive? It'd be cool to have a Paladin protect a Merchant from an Assassin or Wizard, for example.

Sellsword is potentially the most OP card in the game, since it lets you convert all your money into advantage while ignoring tempo. In some late game scrambles we were forced to match each other to stay in the game, and this allowed Sellsword to easily reach 10+ power (or none, depending on the turn). Just having it on the field applies economic pressure/incentive. In our last game nobody bought the Sellsword because its value is very high and hard to estimate until much later in the game. It could just be from how we played though. My version costs the same up to 5 power, but requires extra money to "break the limits." It also provides decent base power in the scenario that you somehow lose all your money, which is fair since you're going to pay a lot for it anyway.

Things like Merchant are OP in super rare scenarios, but it's good as is. It's balance depends on what else is in the deck to counter it (flipping, destruction, even movement to force scoring).

ALSO: I would personally like it if card names and portraits were doubled like the effect text (the cards would be symmetric). At least use a cleaner font for the card names, they're hard to read sideways.
 
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#49
Sellsword edit.png
This is what I meant. It makes the cards more recognizable from either side. I'd cut the cards diagonally for even more style. Unfortunately the art would require adjustment but honestly, nobody needs feet.
 

vivafringe

Moderator
Staff member
#50
Evizaer and I are both enjoying this a lot. Here's some feedback! We've played 4 games so far.

- Paladin and Berserker are fun enough - I like them. They fill an important niche of a decent thing you can play on an empty board.
- Zombie, Fanatic, Siren, Illusionist, Chaos Mage are super lame when there's only 1 lane left. It's definitely cool that valuation fluctuates over the course of a game, but these cards go to being just vanilla 1, 2 or 3 strength monsters. That's super boring, and not particularly difficult to value (they suck). I think I like at least trying out Keith's suggestion of having 3 lanes for the entire game, but I understand the arguments of it being fun and tense to go to one lane. An alternative would be to add a symbol to these cards indicating to discard them from the offer/top of deck when there's only 1 lane left.
- Sellsword was very powerful in the game where we drew him, and also pretty calc heavy. It was sort of fun to have this huge gamewarping thing that people had to throw tons of money at, but I could see myself getting annoyed at his influence on the game over a lot of playthroughs. It's a tough call on whether he should be changed or not, but if it was my game, I'd be pretty nervous about him. Darches has a fairly reasonable sounding nerf IMO.
- Can Plague Doctor be buffed to 4 strength? The fact that the effect is symmetrical makes it seem very bad.
- For the Kickstarter I hope you are planning on having stretch goals that add more cards. You've designed a system that makes it very easy to add a lot of content to, so I'm looking forward to all of the cool stuff you can cram in if this is successful. :)

Speaking of which, here's some card ideas:
- 1 strength, whenever you match your opponent's bid, flip a card in any lane.
- 2 strength, whenever a card is flipped, gain 1 money.
- 3 strength, cards cannot be flipped in this lane.
- 4 strength, Create a new lane and place this in it.
- 5 strength. Income - pay 1 money and flip any card in this lane.
 
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#51
I think Plague Doctor is fine because it has a solid 3 power, a variable effect, and a powerful combo with Grave Robber. Even if it's bad, you can just buy it cheaper. The bidding mechanic is great for balance.
 
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#52
Hey guys. Thank you very much for your feedback. Nachtfischer and I agreed on setting the Sellsword to 2 strength and changing his text to "Pay as many coins as you want. Gain 1 strength for every 2 coins."
Also, we changed the Clumsy Ogre to 5 strength. We will provide a new print and play file with all the changes soon. Thank you so much for your feedback. That really helps us a lot in improving the game! :)
 

Zera

New member
#53
Some card ideas. Only the first is serious.

Gold Golem: 3 strength
"Destruction: Gain 3 coins."

Table Flipper: 1 strength
"Scoring: If your opponent wins this lane, flip all cards in it and re-score."


Drunkard: 5 strength
"Income: Give 1 coin to your opponent."
 
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#55
Some card ideas.

Extortionist - Pay X gold to your opponent, Flip X cards in this lane.
Smuggler - Income: Gain 1 gold per lane your opponent controls.
Vagabond - Income: Move Vagabond.
Labyrinthist - Deployment: Cards with strength over 3 are deployed flipped.
Ferryman - Put X coins on a flipped card. Owner must pay X coins to flip that card.
Coward - Income: Must move to a lane with no enemies if possible.

Gain 1 coin per card your opponent has with more than 3 power
Gain 1 coin each time you opponent flips a card in this lane
Deployment: Flip one of your cards when your opponent deploys a card in this lane.
Gain 1 coin for each card opponent has in this lane beyond the number of cards you have in this lane.

Beast Tamer: Score: The opponent's strongest card in this lane counts for 1 power.
Unscrupulous Physician: Score: Your weakest card in this lane has the same power as your opponent's strongest card in this lane.
Change Addict: Whenever a card flips in this lane, put one coin on this card. Score: this card's power equals number of coins on it.
 
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#56
Wow! Those card effects read great! :) They already almost are enough for an expansion!
I think some of the effects should be slightly adjusted, but in general cards like the Labyrinthist have great potential to make the game very dynamic by changing evaluation of cards completely! :)
 
#57
You could replace the Alchemist with one of them. ;) That's the only stand-out "don't like" card in the game for me.

I'm glad I could help!
 

Nachtfischer

Moderator
Staff member
#58
You could replace the Alchemist with one of them. ;) That's the only stand-out "don't like" card in the game for me.

I'm glad I could help!
I like quite a few of the effects but I'm not sure they fit the existing Alchemist artwork/theme. I can see it being a not terribly interesting effect though...

What would you guys think of:
Alchemist: 4 strength (maybe 5)
"Each player destroys one of their cards in this lane."

So a destruction equivalent of the Monk basically. Context would be something like: Failed experiment, people exploded (fitting the body parts in the artwork).
 

Zera

New member
#59
Ways to use Alchemist

1. These cards look good, but the opponent can match. I'll buy Alchemist at less than her strength, and make a small profit to pass the turn. If the opponent matches, they'll have to destroy a card they control. Either way, I gain money!
2. Zombie and Fanatic come back when destroyed. Free money!
3. This lane is lost, but it contains a 3+ strength card. Free money!
4. This Assassin was useful, but I want to play more strength cards before scoring. Alchemist can clear space and earn free money!

I think the Alchemist, at strength 4 or 5, has enough strength and utility that there's no need to change it's effect, especially if you add the "Destruction: +coins" card.
 
#60
I think the only feasible use of Alchemist is Zera's 4 (very rare in my experience) or comboing with Destruction effects (also pretty rare!). Not enough surface area for solid, let alone interesting, play in my opinion.

I think Alchemist is just not worth having in the game for two reasons.

1. Why would I bother bidding on a card to put into a lost lane in order to get at most like 2 net gold? Wouldn't I do better bidding on something that could get me closer to winning another lane? I could be able to force a counter-bid on some other card and make that much money (probably more!) anyway. The design as a whole is better off with no "pass-like" actions involved. Keep the game moving forward.

2. The more you bid on the Alchemist, the less money you get out of it if you win. The less you bid on the card, the more your OPPONENT gets out of it if he counterbids. If you win, you're destroying one of your own cards to do this anyway. You're not getting much gold out of it and you're not getting much closer to winning any lanes. So you're kind of forced into bidding an amount that doesn't make the card sufficiently appealing (outside of zombie and fanatic combo play). This is not a good dynamic. No other cards feel like this.